Interview:
What Great Leaders DO Differently
This is an interview with Wally Bock about his program, "What Great Leaders DO Differently."
I: You can't miss the emphasis you put on the word, "do," in the title of your program. Why did you do that?
WB: Most of the management and leadership books and articles I've read concentrate on this like the traits of leadership. My life experience and my research tell me that traits and characteristics and all of that don't matter all that much.
What does set great leaders apart are the things they do that are different than what other leaders do and help them achieve their above-average results.
I: What do you mean by "leader?"
WB: A leader is a person who has responsibility for group performance. That includes CEOs. It includes first line supervisors. And it includes everyone in between with group responsibility.
I: OK, I want to ask you about that. Don't you think that leadership is more important than management?
WB: Absolutely not! If you're responsible for the performance of a group, if you're the boss, then you are a leader, a manager, and a supervisor, because that's how people treat you. You're not one or the other. And all of those jobs are important.
I: Say some more about that.
WB: As a leader, you set the tone for the organization, you establish values, and you set a direction for the group to go. That's important. As a manager, you've got to, as one of my trainees put it, "get the laundry done." You've got to handle schedules, priorities, and groups of people. That's important, too. And if you're responsible for the performance of a group, you're also a supervisor. Then it's your job to deal with your direct reports and the work they do so it contributes to the goal. That's important, too.
I: What about people who "lead" even though they don't have the position.
WB: I think that's one of the two great distractions of the leadership literature.
There are certainly people who are not in leadership positions, they're individual contributors and they influence the way the group goes. But they're not leaders because they don't have responsibility for group performance. The group they're part of can fail while they succeed or walk away.
I'm not saying those folks aren't important. They are. I'm not saying that they don't do some of the things that leader do. They do. But if we call it "leadership" whenever anyone influences the behavior of the group, we dilute the concept.
Leaders have responsibility for accomplishing the mission of the group through the people in the group. They have responsibility for caring for the members of the group. If that responsibility isn't there, then the position isn't a leadership position and what happens isn't leadership. At best, it's influence.
I: Wow. You said that was one of two great distractions. What's the other one?
WB: Easy. It's the whole thing about "we need less managers and more leaders." We've spent tons of time on that over the years and it's shifted our attention away from what's really important: what leaders do that makes them effective.
I: What are those things?
WB: I've identified ten things that the great ones do, that their other, less effective peers don't seem to do.
I: And how did you do this identifying?
WB: I looked at the folks I call Three Star Leaders and spent time with them. I observed what they did and what other leaders did.
I: What makes someone a Three Star Leader?
WB: That's easy. You get a star rating from your boss, your peers and your subordinates and you're a Three Star Leader.
I: That's it? No list of traits or characteristics? No guidance?
WB: No traits or characteristics. It's behavior that makes the difference. As for guidance, if I can give you an idea of what top leaders do, then you can learn to do it yourself. And if you do that, you should get the kind of results they get.
I: That makes sense. But ten's a pretty long list for a short interview. What are the big three?
WB: There's one behavior that stands out from the pack and it turns out to be the easiest one. Great leaders show up a lot.
I: That's it?
WB: That's it. But think about it. If you show up a lot you see your people in all kinds of situations. You learn about them and what they do well and what needs improvement.
When you show up a lot, they get used to you being around. Some leaders only show up when they've got bad news. Well, if you do that, then your people will associate you showing up with something bad happening.
And when you show up a lot you create opportunities to coach, counsel and correct. You should use them, too.
I: That's one. How about two more?
WB: Great leaders are unflinchingly realistic. They do things to make sure they're getting good information. Every one of the top leaders I've spent time with has developed a personal way of making sure that he or she was getting the truth of the situation.
I: And a third?
WB: Great leaders develop a cluster of behaviors where they act like the boss. They talk t people about performance. They deliver discipline when necessary.
I: Anything else you want to add?
WB: There is one thing that great leaders seem to understand that others often miss. A leader's job is twofold. You have to accomplish the mission. You have to care for your people.
If you do one or the other you won't be great. Great leaders do both, understanding that those two objectives might be in tension.
I: Wally, thanks for taking the time to talk with us.
WB: My pleasure.